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Post by litekpr on Jun 10, 2007 8:20:19 GMT -4
Almost always smilin PS...almost  Quote Huntwisely.....Pg 1 (I think) The bottomline is that the majority of the BANS members do not want to risk putting the archery season in jeopardy, with all they went t through to get it. End.... IMO DNR issues tags based on studies saying that an allowable amount of deer can be taken without tipping any balance and wiping out the herd in that year. A filled tag that was issued is a filled tag and one hunter thats done for the season...one deer. Again the "means" doesn't matter really...bow,rifle,crossbow,blowgun,spear,rock........ Where do we come up with the idea it will effect the early bow season in a dettremental way? I don't want to be seen as "stirring the pot"..but, How do we actually know it is a "true majority" if a proper vote of ALL members isn't taken? HW..... BANS,BIANS,TAANS,NSFAH,...etc,etc...... Start a crossbow org?.... I think there is plenty of Org's on the go now, quite possibly a few too many IMO,if I joined em all I wouldn't be able to afford a hunting license  Remember, I've worked in Govt for 20+ years, it never ceases to amaze me how smoothly things go on our boat with a crew of only 4 and then how complicated things get when the phone rings or someone starts directing us what to do over the radio...they're checking with their boss who is checking with his boss... ::)you get the idea.... While all the checkin is going on, us 4 got er' done and we're on our way home ;D Could it be possible the fact there is so many ORG's, most don't join cause they are undecided which ONE to join? |
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BEA
Full Member
Posts: 183
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Post by BEA on Jun 10, 2007 18:44:28 GMT -4
I am not in favor of them in the archery only season either. i say give them a week of their own.. even if it's one of our weeks. they are differant beasts and should be treated as such imo. I for one never want them to be treated as what we now use as Bows. But I think they deserve the same as other user groups have.
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Post by huntwisely on Jun 10, 2007 20:22:47 GMT -4
Kpr - DNR giveth and DNR can taketh away. One of the reasons vertical bowhunters got and early and extended season is the very low success rate - usually less than 3 %, I believe. In other jurisdictions, where cross bows have been allowed in archery season, the success rate went up - This has all bee said before - but - if the success rate goes up, we may lose the extended season that was worked so hard for.
BANS supported a resoultion to put in the General open season. If the resolution had been to put a season in the bow season BANS would not have supported it. If the resoltion had bee to put in the muzzle loader or primitive season or in a cross bow only area they may have supported it.
The majotity of BIANS does not support them in archery season and a large number of individual members do not either - Because BIANs is a majority of the BANS members, simple math will tell you we did not need a poll.
If there are too many orgs now, folks could do what the Black Powedr guys did - they organized, got their season and I do not believe they are around any more - course if something threatened their hard won rights, they have no one to defend them now, but ..
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Post by buckknife on Jun 10, 2007 21:04:41 GMT -4
Litekpr,You might as well talk toa stone wall,its just as capable of seeing your side of things as some of the folks on some of these sites.........Elitists.pft!!!!!!all too often it seems like a bunch of antihunting hunters hanging out on the sites nowadays,with their views being the only ones heard,such a shame!
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Post by huntwisely on Jun 10, 2007 21:23:59 GMT -4
BK - BANS hears him loud and clear - A disgruntled member has a point of view - It is different than the majority of BANS members, therefore he is entitled to his point of view, but majority rules.
Now, since there probably is no organization in the province that will take up putting cross bows in archery seasons, we encourage him to start a crossbow lobby organization, and fight for a season of their own as did every other group that worked for a special season. There is nothing elitist about it. It is called democracy.
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Post by POINTY STICKS on Jun 10, 2007 23:12:28 GMT -4
BEA, that has been my way of thinking on the issue as well.
Since DNR allowed bowhunting an extra week which was NOT being used a while back as an extension of the season.
***** FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW*****
At one time there was an early Bow season, a week of NO hunting before the start of open rifle season for deer. DNR allowed bowhunters to have the use of this week with the understanding that if they ever wished to use it for another reason they could have it back.
_____________________________________________________
And since DNR is expected to extend the youth hunt out to 8 days this year, effectively taking control of (not back) the week as bowhunters can still hunt, as well as upland, bear ect....it is one of BANS's mandates to support youth involvement in hunting and fishing activities.
and seeing how using a bow/rifle combo in the current seasons, a hunter can hunt from the end of Sept to the end of the first week of Dec. for deer.
My though is and I know I'm asking for trouble on this one;
1.leave the early bow season as it is
2.the week that the youth season starts in now, have a crossbow season start at that time. (2 weeks long)
3.Move the start of both the youth hunt and the open rifle season back 1 week each, having the open season run through to the end of the first week of Dec.
4. eliminate the so called last week of bow season in Dec.
So you'd have 4 weeks bow, 1 week Xbow(shared by bow) 5weeks total, 2nd week Xbow shared by bow and the start of the youth hunt.(the youth could also take advantage of bow and Xbow in their season)6 weeks total, then start the open rifle season 4 weeks for a total of 10 weeks total. Everyone happy?
How many rifle hunters did I just piss off, 30,000 plus I bet.
Ok I'll duck now as I know it's about to hit the fan.....imagine a bowhunter saying such things. there I said it, but I won't fight for it.
but thats my thoughts.
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Post by litekpr on Jun 11, 2007 0:34:29 GMT -4
I'm not and nor have I said that crossbows should be in the whole archery season.... (pretty sure I haven't anyway and if I did I know someone will go get it if I did).... PS...the riflehunters have a choice, they can take the bowcourse and hunt in the bow season. I think what you have said here makes total sense. My thoughts on this issue are a combination of more members for BANS (possibly) more people interested in bowhunting..before the rifle season....and, the choice ....whatever bow you choose. HW...of course the success rate would climb...you forgot to add in those figures the fact that there are MORE hunters... What was it you said about figures a while back? Correct me if I'm wrong but...DNR does a herd survey sometime through the winter/spring, they then decide on how many deer can be taken in that given year. What differance would it make if or when they are taken? If they issue x # of tags for x# of deer?? Has some official from DNR actually said that if the success rate goes up they will "taketh away" or is this just something someone thought up? The youth hunt..... What better way to get kids interested in bow hunting? I've seen pics of kids over deer in Ont taken with crossbows... What grins on them ;D I would think it to be a natural progression to go from a crossbow to a vertical bow...a new challenge/choice. I have talked to many crossbow users since all the talk has been going on online (not just this debate either) they all agree that at the max 40yds is it and none of them would try past a 30yd shot. I can hit consitantly at 50yds with my compound in the yard/target but I would never attempt it on an animal. I think that opening a season...that would allow a fair chance at success... would dispell some of the fears and misnomers that have been firmly entrenced in some....or....it would prove the naysayers right. Either way I'm certain the sky won't fall. |
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Post by huntwisely on Jun 11, 2007 5:39:52 GMT -4
KPR - Success rates are statistics, not whole numbers - such as hours hunted per deer, or number of deer taken out of the total by whatever means. Yes, DNR has sid we could lose the season, DNR has also said we may not, DNR has said we'd lose the season -, etc - if ya get what I mean. and no, I know more people in the wooods should mean more deer, but the statictics of derr/hunter/per hunters would get bigger as well.
They had to make .410 slugs and .22's illegal as folks would not stay within the effective distance of these guns as they accutately could hit out further than they were effective.
I know some experienced compound shooters that think BIANS should be teaching that the maximum open , no wind shot for deer should be 60 yards and not 40. So, although I know most say 40 yards, there are those that say more than that.
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Post by litekpr on Jun 11, 2007 7:28:55 GMT -4
Well as in everything you will have those that will do foolish things.
History proves that.
To *ass-u-me* that crossbow hunters would be taking shots wayyy outside ethical and practical distances after taking a course that would stress the differance,plus the practicing and honing I know each would do before entering into hunting with one would make us ...foolish.
I'm quite sure the majority who would take this on would be seasoned hunters with a good base of experience and knowledge to start with and not ones to want to take a chance on wounding and losing any animal they may hunt.
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Post by huntwisely on Jun 11, 2007 8:13:45 GMT -4
I not assuming anything, Kpr. I just stated history. I am not saying cross bow hunters would take those longer shots and lose animales any more than rifle hunters or vertical bow hunters - just stating that folks wil be folks and there are all kinds.
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alpo
Full Member
Posts: 157
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Post by alpo on Jun 11, 2007 9:32:45 GMT -4
from what i read on here everyone is right about something, but no one is willing to agree on that either.
KPR, have you considered that the BANS exec. are the 4 man crew who were doing fine, getting the job done, until that call from shore when someone wanted to steer but not come on board ? They see this issue differently & are charting the course around it.
You are correct though that it would be nice if we could all support one another instead of tearing each other down every chance we get.... more than BANS has to change to solve that problem, lots of rifle hunters openly mock bow hunting & archery gear... I wonder if they could effectively vote us all out of the woods... I suppose they too would need to get organized 1st.
Crossbow are not currently part of BANS mandate & I think you would find even less BANS membership in the long run if those that are truly anti-Crossbow stepped away, but for now, I do think that BANS exec. has the backing of the majority of it's members & the majority of bow hunters in general
Part of the reason I enjoy hunting is that it takes place out in the woods, where I am usually alone....I think a lot of hunters enjoy that part, no one around to second guess decisions, or worse make decisions on my behalf.... out there it's ALL ME, win or lose, teamwork is only appreciated when it comes in the form of 100% agreement or out of dire necessity, not a real inclusive attitude , but I'll be honest, I do not go out in the woods looking for anyone else's opinion.
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Post by huntwisely on Jun 11, 2007 9:45:45 GMT -4
You are basically correct, Alpo - except that in these posts, the folks that are on the executive are not repeating their personal views, but those of the majority.
In my case, although I agree the majority in ways, my personal view is slightly different - but I can't voice my view without it being misinterpreted as the BANS view, so I only say what the the majority are in agreement with.
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jmac
Junior Member
Posts: 31
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Post by jmac on Jun 11, 2007 13:53:58 GMT -4
The folks that are on the executive are there because they volunteered tobe when nobody else would stepup to do the job. The opinions that i've seen from them in this forum (that's been beat to death by the way) are reflective of the way we voted at the AGM it was agreed that we wouldn't support crossbows in archery season but we would support them for hunting. These were voted on and passed by the members in attendance which was low but also has to be our representative for the rest of the group. If you'd like to see things change you should come to the AGM and push for crossbows, online voting, baiting etc. If you don't come to the meeting to have your fair say then you really shouldn't pick apart stuff that gets decided after the fact. Nuff said.
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Post by litekpr on Jun 11, 2007 15:24:10 GMT -4
So jmac... You were at the meeting.... How many members were there? Correct me if I'm wrong but I paid the same amnt for membership and representation as you. One problem I have is the travel to and from the meeting. 2hrs both ways *ON A WEEKEND DURING HUNTING SEASON (I believe)*, does that make my opinions less important? My money is still the same color/value as yours wether I jump through that hoop or not. The stuff brought up at that meeting could very well be published ONLINE or e-mailed to memebers for their opinions and THAT IMO would give a FAIR representation of MORE/ALL members who have paid dues to belong to this organization.....NOT GUESSES!and not the opinions of a minority. Plenty of time to get that done before the big meeting. Even if a small percentage of members have puter access (which I find hard to believe) it is still reaching MORE members that pay dues. Hmmmm...... Baiting was discussed at the meeting lastyear?  I can only imagine Is there a copy of the minutes of that meeting available anywhere that members that DIDN'T attend can see? |
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Post by huntwisely on Jun 11, 2007 15:45:05 GMT -4
One of the frist things done at a meeting is to accept the minutes from the previous meeting or correct them and accept them with corrections. Since the minutes from the last AGM have not been accepted by the memberships, they have not been posted on the site, but can be e-mailed to you with this explanation.
NO, Baiting was the year before and there was a vote to leave it alone .......
I realize that the meeting is on a Sunday in October, but is the same each year and folks plan for the travel costs, combine it with another trip, etc. We had a fella from Cape Breton last year and quite often get them from all over the province - just not enough of them. It is one of the costs of belonging, and an organization is run by the folks that show up.
In reality we can poll online, e-mail, etc - but we will still get complaints as quite often thee is a great deal of discussion before a vote at the AGM and some folks even change their minds. With an online vote, this option is not there and some consider that to be unfair.
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